A spur to action – getting money to the local level for nature and climate full transcript
Host [00:00:03] You are listening to Make Change Happen, the podcast from the International Institute for Environment and Development. At the COP 26 climate conference, political leaders called for more action to address biodiversity loss and climate change together. In this episode, hosted for the first time by James Persad – IIED’s new director of communications – we discuss how this must be financed and the possible mechanisms for spurring actions on the ground.
James Persad [00:00:29] Good morning, good afternoon and good evening, wherever you are in the world. Welcome to the latest Make Change Happen podcast, episode nineteen. I’m James Persad, the new director of communications at IIED, handing on from Liz Carlile, and I’ll be your new host for the series going forwards. Today’s episode is about getting the money to where it matters for nature and climate.
And I’ve got a fantastic panel with me, erm, experts from around the world who are going to talk about why it’s important to make sure that finance for actions on nature and climate must flow to the local level; what are the barriers and what are the opportunities to making that happen; and what changes are needed in the current global financing mechanisms to more effectively spur actions at scale for climate and nature. So, without further ado, I will ask our guests to introduce themselves. And firstly, Xiaoting, if I can ask you to introduce yourself please.
Xiaoting Hou Jones [00:01:36] I’m Xiaoting Hou Jones, working as a senior researcher at the Natural Resource group in IIED. Thanks, James and thanks everyone.
James Persad [00:01:41] Thank you, Xiaoting. Introducing our next guest, Mandy Barnett.
Mandy Barnett [00:01:47] Good morning, everybody. Morning from South Africa. I’m Mandy Barnett from the South African National Biodiversity Institute. And we are accredited with the Adaptation Fund and Green Climate Fund and look very forward to sharing some of our experiences with you today.
James Persad [00:02:01] Thanks, Mandy, and great to have you here today with us. Moses Egaru, can I introduce you please?
Moses Egaru [00:02:07] A very good morning from Kampala, Uganda. My name is Moses Egaru, I work with the International Union for Conservation of Nature, IUCN, as a senior programme officer. Thank you.
James Persad [00:02:19] Thank you, Moses. And last but not least, introducing Yiching Song.
Yiching Song [00:02:29] Hi from China everyone. My name is Yiching Song, leader and devisor of Farmers’ Seed Network in China.
James Persad [00:02:32] Okay, so the theme of the podcast is around getting the money to where it matters for nature and climate. And essentially, since COP 26 in Glasgow, political leaders have been calling for more actions and more financing for nature and climate with a growing interest in understanding how to design and strengthen financing mechanisms to get greater action at scale. So what are the options, what are the challenges and what do we need to do to get the finance to where it needs to go so it can be used effectively? Um, Xiaoting, we’ve set the scene a little but maybe you can give us a bit more background and tell us what we mean by a financing mechanism, please?
Xiaoting Hou Jones [00:03:08] Thanks, James. As you mentioned, in recent years we have seen increasing interest from both governments and the companies investing in what we call integrated solutions that can help address the pressing challenges of climate change and the biodiversity loss together. As more people around the world experience more frequent extreme weather event – for example yet again record breaking heatwaves this summer in many parts of the world – more people are also recognising the important role nature can play in helping us adapt to climate change.
For example, I definitely appreciate the shade provided by the trees when the temperature soared here in England. For the field, we’ve seen communities restoring mangroves that can help mitigate impacts of coastal storms. Some call those ecosystem-based adaptations, others call it nature-based solutions for adaptation. But no matter what terminologies we use, they’re essentially about restoring, conserving our sustainable use of nature so we can better adapt to climate change impacts. And there is strong evidence showing that those types of approach are cost effective, including our own IIED research.
But those integrated approaches are still largely under-funded and are under-utilised. For example, a UN report published last year found the amount of funding that goes to support those solutions is considerably smaller than the total amount invested for climate change. And the same report also argues that the total amount of funding for nature-based solutions must triple by 2030 if the world is to meet its climate and biodiversity targets, including those set in the Glasgow COP as you mentioned before.
Although when we talk about financing nature and climate, we often tend to forget it’s not just about how much money is available. It’s equally and sometimes even more important to think about how the limited funding available is spent. This is what we mean by talking about financing mechanisms. The part of that big finance puzzle that looks at how finance is governed - how the money’s spent, who ultimately benefits from it - which all determines whether the finance for nature and climate can actually make positive change on the ground.
James Persad [00:05:22] Thank you, Xiaoting. So, it’s about getting positive actions with nature-based solutions at the centre. And who are they implemented by? Mandy, perhaps you could help shed some light on that question?
Mandy Barnett [00:05:34] Hi, yes, I would, I would love to do that. I relate very well to what’s being raised here because SANBI is a biodiversity institution that’s of course very interested in the role that biodiversity and ecosystem services can play in, um, supporting better lives for people. And of course in the context of climate change, this couldn’t be more important. So we’ve had some very interesting experiences with the adaptation fund in particular where the adaptation fund took a very interesting chance on SANBI and allowed us to build the fund’s very first what they called Enhanced Direct Access Project.
So I need to tell you a little bit about the background of how climate finance works in order for you to understand what this means and why it’s so significant. What it means, essentially, is that in the international climate finance space, there’s been a massive innovation which is about, er, um, channelling funds to national entities, so that these national entities can go on to programme these funds in-country. And this modality is called Direct Access. And there’s a lot of efforts globally to build the capacity of national entities to be able to do this important work. When this happens, what, what usually happens is that the funds are pre-programmed.
So national entities are driving the work but the funds have determined what the programmes of work will be. When we started doing our programming for the adaptation fund opportunity and we started to engage with stakeholders in South Africa, we were very excited to explain to our stakeholders that SANBI was accredited as a direct access entity of the adaptation fund. And a whole lot of local community members said to us, “What do you mean, direct access, if it’s millions of dollars going to government?”
Direct access is only important, or it only matters, when it’s about money going to the ground. And out of that was born this idea of what if we do a small grant facility where we channel relatively small, relatively small – not so small in, in, in the eyes of the communities themselves – but relatively small amounts in terms of how the global funds see this. What will happen if we channel these funds to the ground? And the adaptation fund supported this, the new concept of enhanced direct access was born, um, and we were supported to do this project that channelled relatively small – 100,000 dollar per project relatively small – amounts of money to the ground. Which, with, after seven years, huge successes.
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Mandy Barnett [00:08:11] And if I can talk just to, um, to two of these projects just to give you a flavour of, of what they look like and how they bring biodiversity and climate change together in integrated response: one of them was in a community in a very dry area of South Africa where the communities practise livestock herding. And the project introduced climate resilient breeds into the herds of the sheep and the goats. These animals have now successfully bred into the breeds and their offspring are now continuing to breed. And seven years later we’ve got herds that are much more able to tolerate high and low temperatures that are aligned with, with what we’re expecting climate change to increasingly bring to the areas.
But importantly, they’re also grazed differently. So the impact that they’re having on the biodiversity and in terms of the overall condition of the catchments is fundamentally different. So communities are able to better respond to climate change in the context of investing in nature and ecosystem services. And another really interesting project was in a different community where the community has livestock that rely on, on, on very shallow dams to collect water and provide that for the livestock over different seasons.
And these dams were silted up because of the condition of the catchment – there was a lot of erosion, there was a lot of invasive alien plants – and the project came in, sorted out the dams, removed the invasive aliens, dealt with the gullies that were causing the erosion. And now we have a much better managed catchment, water in the dam, and a community that overall is much better able to cope with climate change.
James Persad [00:09:51] Thanks, Mandy. Yeah, I mean they are wonderful examples and it just shows what happens when you put the power into the hands of local expertise who really understand the issues on the ground that will help to enhance communities’ lives at a local level. I think they’re, they’re fabulous. Thank you. Yiching, does that resonate with you? Is it the same situation in China or are there different issues?
Yiching Song [00:10:17] Er, yes, the issues we are, we are dealing with and we are facing are more or less the same. However, the, given the country tax, the, er, our local community as small farmers the situation a bit different. And one factor here, I should remind everybody here is that China is still the world’s biggest smallholder farming country. We still have two hundred millions of farming household. We’ve seen average farming areas of less than four to six hectares, you can imagine.
Those smallholder farmers are living in two point six million natural villages. And those natural villages across vast, vastly across ecological and culturally diversified area of China. And more importantly, those smallholder farmers are the main force of agriculture production in the country to above eighty percent of the force supply in China due today. And they are not only providing food but also act as a steward for diversity of plant, animals and forest on and around their farms. So far, they are still dealing with loss of farming practise and maintaining small size farms and, er, dealing with continued changing climate and also the increasing social and economic changes in the past few decades. But for those smallholder farmers, it’s their production and livelihood issues. And they have to deal and adapt in their daily base, in a very diversified and integrated way. Every day, combined with natural resource management, farming practise. And even dealing with the changing market and the social context for very practical solutions for their livelihood continuity and resilience. Every day.
James Persad [00:12:25] Thank you, Yiching. And what was the money spent on – could you give us some examples perhaps?
Yiching Song [00:12:31] For example, the, the continuous big spring drought in Yunnan, Yunnan Province, where is our, one of our starting base. In the last few years, the big spring drought become more and more severe. Those farmers have to work in drought resistant seed, the crop and agro-forest, water, irrigation maintenance, soil management. All those integrated approach and the solutions, so collective actions at the community level. However, their crucial roles in the contributions in food production, in agro-biodiversity and, and in climate change are not fully recognised, or are not really recognised and supported. Very under-supported. Those under-supported issues are more or less the same as other countries. However, those, the fund programmes and they tend a bit different. And very, very little fund is flowing to the local level to help support those efforts. As you may know that. China’s climate change effort are more in the mitigation rather than adaptation, in a big approach. And at a grassroots level, there’s almost no adaptation fund flow to. So there are lot of more effort are from like local NGOs and network, working with farmers.
James Persad [00:14:06] Thank you. And Moses, in Uganda, will this kind of approach work for you?
Moses Egaru [00:14:11] Yes, thank you very much, James. Certainly in Uganda, maybe I should first begin by noting that just last week we had a massive landslide in one of the landscapes in the eastern part of the country where quite a number of investments and lives were lost. And really this is the, the reality of the climate change impacts that we are facing as a country. And it can not be overstated how much we need to realign our development pathway to ensure that we incorporate climate-proofing of investments but also managing of the, the catchments and natural resources to avert some of these disasters.
That being said, I think for Uganda really, again, take it more at the local level. For Uganda, we really as a country appreciate the need for bringing in financing at the local level. And currently there is very little financing avenues available that, that trickle down to the communities. And even when they get there, the magnitude or impact caused by these financial models is not really helping to trigger the kind of shift in terms of natural resource and ecosystem resilience that is envisaged. So for Uganda, we’ve innovated and piloted an approach called the Community Environment Conservation Fund model.
And this approach is really a model that is trying to link the restoration or landscape ecosystem management actions to small-scale financing. And how it works is that the communities are facilitated to develop restoration action plans. But these restoration plans have targets that are agreed with the communities. And then once these targets are achieved, then the communities are eligible to access financing or to access grants from the projects that we implement. And this really means that we are able to achieve two things: one is the communities are participating in the restoration of their landscapes and natural resources. This of course leads to better managed landscapes.
But again, in addition to that is the issue of the livelihoods. How do we link livelihood enhancement to ecosystem management? So this is where the Community Environment and Conservation Fund comes in to boost the, the livelihood needs of the communities. And this approach has been piloted since 2012 with very interesting results. We’ve been able to see increased community participation.
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Moses Egaru [00:16:48] But also maybe one of the key things I need to mention is the gender perspective of this approach. Because most of the people who are directly reliant on the natural resources in the rural settings in Uganda are actually mostly the women. Because they’re the ones who take care of the families, they’re the ones responsible for picking firewood, the nutrition of the families. So they are mostly in the collection of water from the, the wells. So they are mostly directly in contact with the natural resource base. And as a result of this mechanism, we’ve been able to realise through our, our feedback mechanisms that the women are appreciating this even more because now it is able to impact on their lifestyles in terms of being able to provide economic benefits to them and their families.
But also reducing maybe the distances they take to collect firewood. But also in terms of providing their families with sources of income. And that has had multiple effects. And this has been really appreciated at that level. So for us we, we really believe that these mechanisms that directly go to communities really empower the communities to be able to, to become stewards of natural resources.
James Persad [00:18:07] That’s a really important point, Moses, about the importance on the women and girls in Uganda benefiting from, from this financing and really, um, great to hear. So you’ve tested this mechanism. What, what do you think needs to be done to scale it up?
Moses Egaru [00:18:24] For us we believe that the pathways for scaling up have already been defined in some of the assessments that we’ve undertaken. For example, now this approach is currently being implemented by IUCN and also some partners are coming on board and even government. But for scaling up purposes, we believe that it’s very important to get private sector on board. For example, how do we get the local financing institutions to be part and parcel of this so that they can support in the management of the farms and be able to connect with the communities at the local level? But also how do we embed this in the government, er, planning cycles. So we believe that for scaling up, once we have this kind of shift in terms of the policies, but also bringing other actors – government, private sector, and all other stakeholders, to support and, and, and drive this process, then we believe the scaling up pathways would already be set and it will be very easy for us now to work together with the communities to move this beyond the scale at which we are operating.
James Persad [00:19:34] Thanks, Moses. Yeah, and I guess it’s really important to, to demonstrate the impact, both from a, a livelihood point of view as well as an environmental impact point of view. So sort of the social impact that it’s having on the ground as you described as well as the, the environmental benefits. Now, Mandy, Moses talked about a loans facility. Would you mind just touching on other ways, other mechanisms for delivering finance to the local level for me please?
Mandy Barnett [00:20:03] Yes, absolutely. And, and maybe before I do that, just to say that I resonate very well with a lot of what Moses is raising. And, you know, what’s really interesting about that is that the lessons that are emerging from developing countries across the world are very similar. So there’s a lot of convergence around, um, what is needed, what is impactful and what needs to be unlocked, really, in order for this work to happen. And, you know, related to that I think is of course the challenge of scaling. And that’s a challenge for adaptation in general.
Because, you know, in the mitigation work it’s very easy to get to scale. In adaptation, when we’re getting to the ground, it becomes a very almost individualised set of responses that are needed. And that calls on investments in process. And so, you know, I think it’s very important as we move forward in unlocking climate finance for this very important work, that we don’t get locked into a trap that it’s just about assets or just about things. And, and remember all the lessons that have come from community-based adaptation and community-based natural resource management and community-based development around how investing in the kind of enabling, systemic, softer skills are so critical to delivering on these programmes of work.
If I come to the question that you’re asking me about, about finance, I think what’s very important here is to never lose sight of the fact of the public good associated with this kind of work. I think the private sector’s important but I think that there’s an obligation in terms of, um, the climate crisis of supporting vulnerable communities in developing countries to respond to climate change with public funds. And I think that we need to make sure that the global funds continue to mobilise in the grant space so that communities that are unfairly impacted by the climate crisis are able to be supported to do what they need to do.
Of course in a way that we’re building sustainability into the work - you know, we want to leave communities better off, not with projects that unravel once we leave – but I think that there’s a danger in us thinking that we can access private sector finance for this work and in that way, um, actually divert attention from the importance of mobilising, as I said, public sector finance to support these vulnerable communities to adapt.
James Persad [00:22:28] I’ve got you. Thank you, Mandy. And you talked about the sort of the proliferation of possible projects at a local level. Do you – which strikes me as a barrier – do you have thoughts or examples of how those can be managed in a way that helps to scale up the projects locally?
Mandy Barnett [00:22:47] Yes, I mean we have a lot of thoughts and a lot of lessons that have emerged from our experience doing this over the past seven years. You know, the, the first point to make is that it’s difficult and, you know, it’s not as simple as dropping some money into a post-box and thinking that the results will just come. We need to be working across the whole system. And then the second point, which is related to the, to the point about it being difficult, is the need to invest right across the system to enable this.
So, you know, if climate finance is going to flow to the ground, what we need is for the missing middle to be working. And there’s been a lot said about the missing middle in, in climate finance and around how we need, um, governments, sub-national government, local government, NGOs, community organisations, all working in partnership in order to be able to get the money to flow to the ground and the benefits to materialise on the ground and to be sustained. I think that we need to have investments at all of those different levels of the system, and a recognition that investments at the, these different levels of the system are important in order to sustain this impact. And I think, critically for developing countries, and this might be a controversial point, I think we need to be investing building capable states.
So, you know, I think it’s very important, the work of civil society in working alongside communities. Often civil society is stepping into a gap that is there because government is not doing what it needs to be doing. And I think we really need to be working into those spaces and understanding what are the barriers to government doing its work in service delivery, etcetera, keep supporting communities on the ground and looking at how we build a capable state that can then work alongside communities and civil society to deliver these important programmes of work.
James Persad [00:24:42] Thanks, Mandy. So we’re saying we need a whole systems approach, need to look at national level, regional level and local level authorities in order to deliver kind of complete and accurate solutions.
Mandy Barnett [00:24:54] Yes, absolutely. And everybody working together, talking to each other.
James Persad [00:24:59] Terrific. Thank you.
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James Persad [00:25:02] Just coming back to you, Xiaoting. So we’ve, we’ve discussed some of the issues today and IIED and partners have been highlighting these issues around climate finance for several years now. What do you think the next step should be?
Xiaoting Hou Jones [00:25:14] Good question, James. Indeed, we have been working on what we call Money Where It Matters for years now, including documenting and learning from those very interesting diverse complementary finance delivery mechanisms, including the example we just heard from Moses, Yiching and Mandy. There’s a lot of evidence pointing to what’s not working in the system, and the change needed to transform the current funding system to make finance flow better to local level.
Those lessons have been the foundation for a set of what we call locally-led adaptation principles, which have been gaining global support. One of the key next steps for me is to continue to emphasise that those principles are not only applicable for climate adaptation but also for addressing biodiversity, poverty and inequality together. And as we have heard from Yiching, Mandy and Moses, we often see local communities already championing those integrated approach with support from a variety of local stakeholders, including government and the civil society. Because climate change and biodiversity loss are already felt at the local level and they already impact the daily lives of those vulnerable communities.
And when we go to local level there is no sector or silos, there’s no different departments for climate, nature and development. Therefore by making funding flow better to local level, we can avoid the often sectoral approach in the tunnel visions that prevent what you, you mentioned about scaling up those integrated approach, like ecosystem-based approach. And make them more the norm rather than the exception. Though local communities often, I think, the forgotten investors in nature and the climate responses. We often mention governments, we often mention private sector. But from what we heard already from the examples from China, Uganda and South Africa, they show that local communities and the local government are investing their time-limited resources in trying out different approaches to cope with changing climate and environment.
Individually or at local level, those investments may look really small in comparison for example to millions of dollars [laughs] for international funders. But collectively, we have seen those collective investment by those local stakeholders transform the landscape from mountains in China, drylands in South Africa to watersheds in Uganda. So if governments and the companies and the banks can design their funding mechanism to leverage those local actions, and leverage those missing middle – as Mandy mentioned – it will help unlock vast amounts of resources and innovation at local level.
James Persad [00:27:52] So what does that mean for IIED’s work?
Xiaoting Hou Jones [00:27:55] Part of IIED’s work going forward is also continuing to strengthen the local voices in national and international discussions on nature and the climate, including how to finance nature and the climate. And ensure that international, national policies can reflect those local realities, can reflect and think about what we can learn from those existing mechanisms and support integrated approach like ecosystem-based approach and nature-based solutions that consider some difficult trade-offs, but optimise synergies among different objectives for climate, nature and development.
James Persad [00:28:28] That’s terrific. Thanks, Xiaoting. And just to say, just to add I think the Locally Led Adaptations Principles report can be found on the IIED.org website. Moses, what do you think the next step should be with regards to getting over the barriers that are hampering climate finance flowing to the local level? What’s the next step?
Moses Egaru [00:28:47] For us, we really believe, speaking from a developing country perspective, we believe that the international financing mechanisms are already in place. But I think for us at the local level it’s how best then can we work together with these existing financing mechanisms to ensure that the perspectives of the communities embedded in the type of financing mechanisms that are available. Whatever is designed or the frameworks through which they are designed and provide financing down to the grassroots, purely in the commented perspective, the interests of the communities, and ensure the other issues that we need to also address is how do we then support, you know, transformation of the communities but also the capacity issues. You know, the soft skills that are required to be able to push over the hurdle. So I think these are very critical.
But also, again, how do we bring the critical actors to work together in a, in a synergistic manner? Private sector, government, civil society, and be able to speak more so in the same language but also drive in the same direction. So that whatever investment is coming in is really delivered to the local level but it also has support systems from these actors and players that are able to support the communities to ensure that the results are obtained.
James Persad [00:30:14] That’s wonderful. Thanks, Moses. Yiching, just finally to you. We’ve discussed the issues, your organisation and other partners of IIED have been highlighting this issue around how to get the money to where it matters for years. What’s the next step, do you think?
Yiching Song [00:30:31] My organisation, Farmers’ Seed Network in China, is a non-profit community-based organisation. Our goal and aim is to strengthen farmer seed systems and improve their livelihood by enhancing food security and climate change resilience. We work closely with small farmers in the communities. Our approaches are quite integrated, and we try to facilitate a collaboration between farmers, communities and multiple stakeholders from both public and private sectors, including scientists, local government and even local enterprises. And more and more civil societies groups are involved in the process.
Farmers’ Seed Network in China are working with more than forty-five pilot rural communities with more than fifty-thousand smallholder farmers in ten provinces across the country in China. And I think to scaling up, what works at a grassroots levels are quite important is what we are thinking we should try to push forward in the, in the coming years.
James Persad [00:31:45] Thank you, Yiching.
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James Persad [00:31:52] So final, final question from me. Thanks for a wonderful, wonderful podcast. My first one as host, so thanks for making it a really interesting conversation. It’s all about making change happen, so what’s the one thing you think needs to change to get finance to local level actors for adaptation initiatives, if there was one thing you could choose? Mandy?
Mandy Barnett [00:32:13] The first thing I would say is we need to make it simple. You know, we talk about supporting integrated responses but in reality, the complexity of accessing finance is such that it doesn’t enable the easy integration of local and indigenous knowledge into the development of, of responses. You know, anyone who’s working with the Green Climate Fund will know the conversation about the development of the climate rationale, which seemed like a very good idea in the beginning. But it’s so complicated at the moment that without specialist consultants to put an argument together, there’s no project proposal.
And, and so how does that fly in the face of the principle of locally led adaptation? And then the second point that I would make in there is that in order for us to work across the system, we need to have warm bodies that are able to work into those issues at different levels of the system. And I think the big gap there is resourcing for sub-national capacity. So of course not to take away of the imperative of resourcing at the local level, because that’s what this is all about, but in order for the system to work what we need to be doing is building the capacity of sub-national actors so that they can work to join the dots across the whole system that needs to work for sustainable flows of finance.
James Persad [00:33:33] Terrific. Thanks, Mandy. Xiaoting?
Xiaoting Hou Jones [00:33:35] I think one key thing needs to change is that when we talk about financing for nature and the climate, we should not only talk about the volume of fundings needed – which is often mentioned in media and when we speak about this with funders – but also really start to think about and talk in the same breath about how those monies are spent, the delivery mechanism that can make the limited funding being spent better. And Mandy, Moses and Yiching already gave us a lot of food for thought of how that can happen. At the same time, the cases from China, Uganda and South Africa also point to the importance of very patient and long-term investment. Which is utterly lacking at the moment. Skills, relationships, networks all take time to build and nurture. So patient investment really is crucial in all cases.
James Persad [00:34:27] Great stuff. So Moses, any reflections on what we’ve just heard and the one thing that you think needs to happen in order to make change happen?
Moses Egaru [00:34:37] Yeah, thanks very much, James. From our context, we really believe that in as much as my colleagues have mentioned, some of the things that need to happen to transform availability of finance for climate change adaptation and mitigation. But for us in our context, we really believe that it’s important to integrate both indigenous or local knowledge with the science. And the reason being is that in the local communities, the communities understand what works for them within the landscapes. For example, what species thrive, how are they adapted to the environment.
But then, it’s also important then to integrate the science with this indigenous knowledge. And the science brings in what transformation needs to be done, what kind of projections, how do we improve the breed of maybe livestock. So once we integrate the science and the indigenous knowledge, then it helps us to develop packages that speak to the needs of both the local communities but also are informed by the general source of knowledge. And this makes sure that whatever interventions that we are delivering are really fit for purpose and they will be able to meet the needs of both the communities but also ensure that they are climate proofed and they are responsive to what is necessary or what the catchment or the environment under which they are being prescribed works or needs. So it’s very important to integrate both of these approaches because in our perspective it is what delivers the results. Thank you.
James Persad [00:36:08] Yiching?
Yiching Song [00:36:09] I think that given the situations in China that this, from the national strategy, we have a number of big programmes, like climate change adaptation, like rural revitalisations, like agriculture transformations. Those programmes are quite good but the implementation at a very grassroots levels need to be integrated. For climate change adaptation, we really need to combine all those top-down programmes together. And then to support the very grassroots level NGOs, to fill up the missing gaps, to bridge in the communities with the outside supporters, with integrated approach.
What we can do that is that to do integrated capacity building for supporting those communities and also link those communities to multiple stakeholders. So this is what I think that the local NGOs like Farmers’ Seed Network and other NGO networks could do at grassroots level. To play the role as a platform to bridging the local communities’ actions to the public fund to the private fund, and then to assess the support to multiple stakeholders. And more and more important, also involving civil societies working together with the local communities, both in rural and urban.
James Persad [00:37:39] Thank you, Yiching. And a huge thank you to all of our panellists today for a really fascinating conversation. Thank you for listening, especially as it’s my first time hosting, and look forward to the next episode of the Make Change Happen podcast. Thank you.
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Host [00:37:54] And you can find out more about today’s podcast, our guests and their work at www.iied.org/podcast where you can also listen to more episodes. Searching for ecosystem-based adaptation on the website will lead you to information on finance delivery mechanisms and some interesting story maps. You can leave us feedback or follow the podcast at soundcloud.com/theiied. For more information about IIED and our work, please visit us online at www.iied.org.
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